Carbon Capture AND Chemistry with Ardent CEO Erica Nemser

Ilham Kadri: Today I'm so happy to be speaking with Erica Nemser. Erica is the CEO of Ardent, an advanced membrane technology startup headquartered in the US. Ardent provides separation solutions for some of the world's toughest industrial chemistry challenges, including carbon capture and storage. And at Syensqo, we are proud to partner with Ardent combining world class material science from Syensqo with Ardent's innovative membrane carbon capture solutions. And I'm really interested to hear what she has to say about the future of carbon capture, her leadership lessons and so much more. Erica, thank you so much for joining me today.

Erica Nemser: Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation.

Love of science, chemistry and entrepreneurship

Ilham Kadri: Definitely and I always, like Erica, to ask my guests where it all began. So I'll start by asking you, where does your love of science, chemistry and we share that and entrepreneurship come from? Did it start when you were very, very young or later? Tell us more.

Erica Nemser: Sure it definitely started, when I was very, very young though I don't know at the time if I appreciated how much. So I can definitely remember going to school, my first day of kindergarten, like so many kids, and I was excited about learning and being able to a little bit share what I already knew. I knew my letters. And I could, I could read a little bit. I knew addition and subtraction a little bit, and I knew that carbon had four bonds. Because my father was a chemical engineer and I was shocked to learn that actually chemistry did not appear on the kindergarten curriculum. And it was, it was mostly reading and math. But, so that was sort of what kicked it off and, and started a through line in appreciation of for me, math and science. And then ultimately I became an economist by training before leading into business. But I definitely had also the stints as a kid entrepreneur doing all the things that kid entrepreneurs do.

The switch to carbon capture economy and Ardent’s role in it

Ilham Kadri: I love it, so, so chemistry back in the kindergarten classroom, I love it because, yeah, chemistry is fun. So, you know, and later on, so let's go ahead and delve into the issue of carbon capture because this is what, you are the one, what's your company specializing in and the technology is crucial for fighting climate change.

So tell us what are you doing you know exactly. I know it's incredibly important of course, because carbon capture and storage has generally been too expensive to scale, like any new technology. But Ardent may be able to change that and leapfrog that challenge. And I know you already have pilots for your carbon capture technology in several locations. Can you tell our listeners: How is the switch to a carbon capture economy going and how is Ardent going to play a bigger role?

Erica Nemser: Absolutely. So I would say if we step back and say what's the nature of the challenge that our customers are looking at, we look at the hard to abate sectors in the industrial space. So that space broadly is responsible for about a third of CO2 emissions. So it's very big and it's hard to abate because it doesn't have an easy solution that we see in other sectors. So for example, in transportation, we can all buy electric vehicles. Those are commercial now. And that's the abatement approach for the transportation industry and in power generation. We all see that wind and solar are now commercial solutions. If you look at the industrial space, which is a space that's responsible for making most of the energy and most of the materials we use today, whether it's things like steel and cement, or it's the small components in your smartphone. Those industries need a way to reduce those CO2 emissions, and for most of them, they have large factories and installations and need to reduce the CO2 from that existing infrastructure. And so carbon capture is the easiest, most practical way for them to reduce their CO2 footprint and move to this sort of energy transition in a post emissions world, which we can all see. 

The challenge has been there's not an easy solution technologically to do that or really economically and business wise. So if you step back and think of customers, particularly those with big infrastructure, it's not just about finding something that technically works. It needs to physically fit in their plant, needs to be small enough, easy enough to use, not complicated, not have chemical emissions. People want, you know, they just want to snap on. Into their existing infrastructure. And that's what membranes represent, a new solution that's not energy intensive, that's easy to use, that's practical for those applications.

And so we do have a great set of partners and we have a great set of customers who've trialed this technology in different industries in a steel plant, in a kiln process, as well as in a refinery. And all those are actually in Europe.

The impact of carbon capture on climate change and the economy

Ilham Kadri: Yeah, and you mentioned it, the importance for such a solution for the hard to abate, specifically in the European region you just mentioned, which has, you know, carbon neutrality goals, right? And many of us, like Syensqo. We believe we can reach carbon neutrality by 2040, so 10 years earlier than the EU. But we need solutions indeed, and we need plug and play, you know, in our plants, in our manufacturing plants. So you talk about simplicity, easy, you know, to get it into your facility small enough, and indeed affordability. So, I. So, as I mentioned earlier, Syensqo is a partner and Syensqo ventures actually, which is our venture capital fund, invest in Ardent because it creates membrane solutions that could help decarbonize the hard to abate sector. Indeed and I mean, if all the heavy industrial sector were able to deploy these carbon captured technologies, what impact would that have on climate change Erica?

Erica Nemser: So if everyone could snap on today, this solution that's a third of global emissions of CO2. So we would reach all of our goals almost immediately in that sector. Right? So it would be dramatic in terms of reducing today's emissions. And to your point, we could hit those 2040 goals tomorrow.

Journey of starting Ardent

Ilham Kadri: Yeah, absolutely. And if you have critical mass, it also will weigh in into the cost. Right. And affordability. And I heard that your company obviously was actually started by your father. And it began as a research lab. And you told us how, you know, from father to daughter, you get probably some, positive infection and, you know, wisdom to why not chemistry. But you, Erica, you transform it into a profitable company producing concrete solutions. In other words, you took 30 years of experience in this special technology. And added the startup mentality to it, right. Can you tell us about this journey and how you did that?

Erica Nemser: Absolutely. So it's definitely been a journey and the team at Ardent is an amazing team of scientists and engineers, and they were, when I, when I came and joined, and my background is, I went from school to management consulting, and then I came to Ardent. So when I joined, it really was around the question of, wow, this is game changing technology, right?

It can have a huge impact on tough chemical separations, which are in some cases very energy intensive, and there are many, many use cases for this. Carbon capture is one, but that's an enormous market. That would be, that's building potentially a multi-billion dollar company. And so I came with the sort of skillset and approach of how do you take technology that has the potential to do that and actually deliver that reality because it's very different than when I came to the company, had initial sales in other markets and was selling, you know, a large number of units, but not at the scale of carbon capture. And so that thinking is really about how do you bring focus, how do you make decisions around which technologies we’re going to move forward and which platforms and which were not. So for example, when I came, the company had 30 different programs they were working on for 30 different application areas, and there really was a thinking that many scientists have in many places, which is, they're like lottery tickets. The more you have, the more likely you are to win. Right, but they're not exogenous events like the lottery, that if you hold more tickets, you're more likely to win. Actually, your fate is in your own hands. You have to make the win yourself. So it really is about focusing on one or two that you're gonna try to deliver into the market.

So we focused around carbon capture and this technology platform, and we built from that, an amazing team because many people tell me that I'm running a technology company and I answer yes, but really I'm running a people company because the technology doesn't do itself, the people do. And so, really building that great team and building a set of partnerships because as a small company we have a lot of strengths, like being able to have focus on one question and things like that.

But we can't do everything ourselves. And so being successful at venture scale enterprise, so something that is going to address trillion dollar markets with billion dollar solutions is really about having the right partners that if you wanna go fast, go by yourself, but if you wanna go far, go with others. And the Syensqo relationship is entirely emblematic of that.

Small companies as a disruptive force

Ilham Kadri: Thank you Erica, and it's amazing. I mean, we'll come back to the people side at the end of the show, but I, I really love what you are saying. I think it's gonna resonate with our Syensqo explorers. We call ourselves explorers, not anymore employees or colleagues, because, you know, I promote also in the company focus and move on. Because with focus you can achieve, you can fail earlier, hopefully you can, you know, do what it takes and then move on. Rather than doing, trying to do many too many things and not delivering. And I've heard you say that often, large companies are looked to as the innovators, but that small companies can also be a disruptive force.

I can only agree with this. Can you elaborate for our listeners on that and what do startups and small companies need to do really to be ahead in innovation and maybe support partners like ourselves. We are mid-size cap and maybe even bigger companies in the chemical industry. Because you say this, we cannot do it alone.

Erica Nemser: Absolutely. So I'd say obviously big companies have been the innovative force for a long time and they bring a lot of strengths to the table, the breadth of skills, the breadth of knowledge, manufacturing, capabilities. There's a ton there. So you could look at that as a small company and say, I could never compete with that but I'm a big believer in competitive advantage and where is that relative advantage? So when you look at a small company, you know, we are [00:13:00] smaller, we are very nimble. So decision making at Ardent and, and in many small companies, you know, we can decide over the course of an afternoon in a room.

And that makes it really applicable to spaces where you're trying to innovate, not just the technology, but if you look at carbon capture, the development of a market. So being able to understand that and react quickly is important. And that's something that's just easier to do with a smaller group of people often.

And so that's something that small companies have and that level of focus. We frankly don't have a massive legacy in the market of existing products that we have to deliver on a quarterly basis to financial markets. Now, in general, one thinks of that as a strength, but you can also think of it as you know, that's asking a large company to do two different things at once.

Manage that level of existing products and protecting those products going forward and innovating in parallel. And so for a small company, we only have the one half, right? And you could look at that as a disadvantage, but we can look at that as, you know, how can we use that level of focus to do something with our small, nimble team?

And that's always been, I think, the real value that we're bringing to the equation. And then say, we are gonna partner on these other things. We are never gonna be the first in class in domains where other people already have those experiences.We need to be first in class in our technology innovation. So when you kind of unlock some of these traditional paradigms, you do find new solutions that enable us to go further faster.

Ilham Kadri: And I love it. So, you talked about, you know, the focus, finding your sweet spots going after it. I think you developed a pilot scale today. What is it, Erica? A ton of CO2 per per day, right?

Erica Nemser: We're not quite at a ton per day. We're still at in the kilos, but the ton per day is the next, the next horizon.

Inspiration from the “absence of materials”

Ilham Kadri: Is the next goal. But there are multiple field tries at end customers, right. You are doing it in Austria, I know for steel cement application. And, and, you know, I watched your Ted talk, Erica, and I really liked what you said about, I remember the absence of materials, creating the inspiration for you, for all of us to create new things. And I couldn't agree more. and, and in a way that inspires us too at Syensqo to create lighter materials to replace steel, for example.

So when we talk about competition with my, our explorers, I said, you know, it's not our peers or people who are doing the same of, or more of the same. Actually, it is what you can replace in another type of material. So you create these new spaces, either with new materials, new application, you know, so give us maybe an example of how the absence of materials inspired you.

Erica Nemser: Absolutely. I would say there are two, two big domains that we think of in the, in the absence of materials. There's, as you mentioned, there's a better solution to a problem that exists now. I would say we compete against the absence of a solution often, which is that there isn't a way to do something now so people aren't out hunting for, oh, can you just make this 10% cheaper or 15% faster?

They might not even be hunting at all because they don't recognize that solution, and the one we all know from our daily lives is if you rewound to our parents and asked them 30 years ago, how much are you looking for a smartphone? They would all say, what's a smartphone? And I'm not looking for one.

And, and yet here we are living in this world where they're ubiquitous. And so one of the things that we looked at with our membranes is their separation membranes, as you mentioned. and one of the places it started was, really addressing something that's done by distillation right now in the chemicals industry.

And so for folks in the industry, obviously they recognize how, how prominent distillation is for folks not in the industry. It's one of the big workhorses of doing separation. It's not always about making the materials we want, it's often about separating those materials into the purity that we can use.

And the big technology that's often used for that is distillation. So y'all may know distillation from alcohol and distilling alcohol. It is very energy intensive. It requires massive infrastructure and so it only gets used in places that can afford a giant distillation column. And just to give you, to quantify that, there's one separation in the chemicals industry, ethylene separation that's responsible for about, 5% of energy consumption globally.

You could run Singapore on the amount of energy that this separation uses, right? It's not small. And so we looked at that and said, okay, but there's a bunch of things that are getting wasted right now. Product that is getting wasted, energy that's getting wasted, you know, emissions that are getting created.

Because there's no not just lower cost, easier way to do that separation with something like membranes rather than boiling things, right? But there's all the things that are not getting served and we tackle those in plants, which is how do we use membranes which do scale down our lower energy, are easy to use and do bolt on to do stuff that you can't even imagine doing.

So all of a sudden we can lower the CI score across an entire plant and increase its productivity. You know, carbon captures just the next step in that whole process.

Ilham Kadri: Yeah, no, it's music to my ears and to all the audience, especially the chemists in the audience and the Syensqo explorers because I mean, I used to say if you can reuse the waste is not waste anymore. And the opportunity for us. as scientists, as business people, is to eliminate that waste or recycle it. And, and you are in the heart of it. And I just love it because, you know, why when I joined the chemical industry 30 years ago and it has been one of the best rides in my life in this industry, I was shocked back in 2019 moving to Europe from the US and hearing that chemistry is a problem. And, I think you would agree that chemistry is part of the solution, right? And, innovation material. Innovation, finding, as you said, solutions to problems or the unmet needs. And sometimes we don't know, even it's your iPhone story or you know, the smartphone story, right? Nobody imagined it's, it'll be, there will be more than one in our handbags today.

Erica Nemser: Mm-hmm.

The power of AND

Ilham Kadri: Erica, this podcast is about the power of the AND, and how we can make companies both sustainable and profitable. And you are, frankly one of the best, you know, examples, because your company is literally creating solutions through chemistry that can give us more sustainable future profitably. So as a sustainable business leader yourself, what advice would you give to our audience listeners, to other young leaders who want to make a difference in the world?

Erica Nemser: I would say absolutely bring that passion and desire to make a difference and your skills, technical skills, whether it's scientific, technical skills, marketing, technical skills, whatever it is, bring that to the challenge. But I would definitely agree with the, AND, and to think about it in, in that case, around profitability and solutions, the, and really is the customer.

We need to deliver solutions to problems that customers have, and we need to fall in love with their problems and not just fall in love with our technology. So I love membranes. I think they're cool. My team loves membranes. They think they're cool. Customers actually, like they think membranes are interesting, but really they want a solution and they don't care if it's membranes or fairy dust, right?

And so our job is to really think about what makes the membranes wonderful to them because it solves their problem. Is there problem? They need something that's easy to use. They need something that's small. They need something that fits in the plant right here. They need something that's not gonna make the operators have a hassle. And so we need to solve that problem that the technology is just the start. It opens the door, but what customers really need is a solution to that heartache and problem that they have, whatever that is. Right. And for us, we see those. You know, you brought up reusing. Like we had a customer who came to us and said, look, we just wanna use less solvent. Because we think we should be recycling it. Do you have a membrane that can, [00:25:00] you know, dehydrate it while we're using it so we can drive our reaction and just do it without dumping solvent out? And we said yes we can.

Right? But it's falling in love with that problem and not saying, I have a membrane with these kinds of characteristics. And I think that's what's gonna get us there. Because we can't, you know, finger wag at customers and tell them you should do this and you should do that. At the end of the day, we need to recognize that they have business imperatives, they have many other imperatives, and we have to address them at that level.

Ardently working for solutions 

Ilham Kadri: I love it. I used to say to our innovators and researchers, don't fall in love with your technologies. Right? Be agnostic to technology. Bring the solution, but I'm gonna steal it from you is the fall in love with the problem, right? And be obsessed by that. I just love it and I really admire your determination and your belief that nothing is impossible. And I've heard you say that hard things are hard, but not impossible, and that mindsets are key and this is what it's all about. And carbon capture capture is one of those things that has been hard, but as you are providing, is not impossible.

And in fact, with the right solutions, with the right chemistry, with the right, you know, advancements and progress in sciences. It can even be cost effective. I heard, I mean, I know that you recently changed the name of your company to Ardent, right? Which is, you know, a beautiful English word, but it's the same in French, for example. I really like this name as it brings to mind people who are never giving up and ardently looking for a solution. How did you find this name and does the name have any special meaning for you?

Erica Nemser: It does have special meaning around exactly what you mentioned, which is we are committed to being part of the energy transition and delivering things to customers, but that is not going to be trivial, right? It's going to require commitment, endurance, grit. That's all in by Ardent that we need to be ardent, right? That it's, it's not gonna come easy, but it will come. And so that's the spirit.

All about people

Ilham Kadri: This is amazing. Congratulations for the name and the branding. Before, you know, I  close with the people side and the culture side. I mean, we're sitting here. This is, April 11th, 2025, and the whole world is in convulsion and changing. And that's where I'm not gonna ask a question about tariffs at all, Erica, but you know, I mean, we are seeing the US you know, leaving the Paris Accord, China targeting 2060 carbon neutrality Europe, not knowing how to, the how, not the what. They're still, you know, going after the 2050 but goal. But you know, the, how has been a bit a challenge in the past few years, specifically for the chemical industry with a lot of red tapes and et cetera. And you are at the heart of this sustainability and profitability. How does this impact your vision? How does this impact your company, your people?

Erica Nemser: So I would say, I mean, people are people. So we are all impacted by the same things that impacts everyone else every day. Right? And there's definitely a theme there that everyone at Ardent is there to make a difference. And so we're impacted by the larger changes out in the ecosystem that make that look harder or farther away.

I would also say that the, it's a committed group of people who truly believe that we can make a difference, and so it's combined with a, well, let's put our heads down and get on with it right? Because we are going to have to be the people that deliver this and the world will see, and how do we find a way through it.

So I think that spirit is really crucial. You can look at any problem, people can look at any problem and say, here's all the reasons it's hard, or it's not gonna work. This, this, this, this. There's a reason it hasn't been solved and there's a reason it's been done this way forever. And we could just put our heads in the sand and avoid it.

Or we can look at a problem and say, but what if we looked at it this way? And what if we tackled it this way and what if? And that belief that it's fundamentally solvable opens up the aperture to a lot of creativity, and it's combining that creativity without, let's call it fool heartiness. 

Recipe for success

Ilham Kadri: yeah, yeah. And it's good to remind all of us that this is happening. And whatever happens, right? it's important that science, technology and building a business case because you are just not making innovation and IP and putting them in the fridge. This is really applied innovation, right, which goes to our manufacturing plants and which can help us to decarbonize efficiently, well let me know, you know, conclude this conversation with the people side. I know this is, in the core and the, and the hearts of, of your company and of your leadership, and also know how you have built a company culture around people and you call Ardents a people company. How did you build that culture, and how does it affect the determination, the motivation, maybe the creativity, of your teams I mean, and you came to Ardent, and turn it from a research lab to a commercially driven, and we heard you now saying, be obsessed by the solution. Go and find it. Nothing is impossible. So how did you build this culture, did you have a vision of it or is it something you co-construct? Give us your recipe of success.

Erica Nemser: Sure. I am happy to share thoughts. I firmly believe success is somewhere you visit, not somewhere you live. Right. And so we also have, part of our culture is recognizing and celebrating failure because it's part of the journey. And if you think you're gonna be successful every minute, you're gonna be disappointed.

But it is taking things like that, like success and really breaking it down. And saying, well, what attribute is really important to us? And we wrote them down, what are the attributes that are important to us culturally? Ownership, creativity. Right. And we made a list of those attributes and we said, well, how are, which ones do we have now? Because I came to Ardent and it had a really good culture around, you know, creativity, professionalism, innovation, scientific rigor and collaboration we're an incredibly collaborative group, with not a lot of politics. And so we basically said we're gonna do a from these, which are great building blocks to that plus, right?

Here's the culture we wanna build and what are we gonna have to do to get there as a leadership team, as individuals in our recruiting, in our messaging. In our day-to-day activities and recognize that it's a process, it's a years long process. and we've tried to reflect that in everything we do in my all-hands meetings, in the way I work with teams, in the opportunities that I give leaders, in the way that our leaders work with the folks on their team. And, and it's really a joy to see people succeeding and leading. Our leadership team is made up of people in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties. And we work really well together. And so, and they embody all those characteristics. So it's, it's great, but it's a process and it has to be deliberate and embedded.

I would say, if there's two pieces of success, it's not, we're gonna do all this work and then culture's gonna be, it's other little category. It's how is the culture embedded in every meeting. Right, and the way that we work.

What track driving and entrepreneurship have in common

Ilham Kadri: Yeah. And it takes time and each of us right, to contribute to that culture. 

So I can continue this conversation for longer. But one last question, Erica. I know that you, your work probably takes a lot of your time as you are passionate and, you know, really getting into something bigger, but what do you do? What do you enjoy doing when you are not at the office?

Erica Nemser: When I am not at the office, one of my hobbies that I really enjoy is I am a track driver and an instructor and coach for track driving. And so I find that, it's thrilling and enjoyable and wonderful and there are a ton of parallels to obviously the work world. 

Ilham Kadri: Like what? 

Erica Nemser: So it's the same thing in problem solving, right? If you wanna drive fast at the track, you know, when people start out, they think of it as, okay, I just have to get around the corners. And then I can, sort of put my foot to the floor and go fast on the straight. And that definitely works. But if you wanna be really fast, you need to get around the corners fast.

And that's a problem solving challenge. You are limited by your own capabilities as a driver. And there's three things, the capabilities as a driver and the mechanics of your car. And in modern cars, the computer in the car, but you can use those as tools and it's the same thing. When I was starting to drive and I would be following a car in and I'd be like, I can't keep up with that car.

But I am not gonna lose that car in the corner. And, and I could sit there and bemoan, but my car is heavier and my power to weight ratio and blah, blah, blah. But I, if you come at that and say, well, what do I have? Well, I got four wheel drive and if I can just put my car into a four wheel slide, I'm gonna take that.

And you solve the problem that you have in front of you using the resources that you have, and it's the same. And it's a lot like work. Another one, which is driving on the track is you've got two brains. You've got the brain that's saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Slow down. And you've got the brain that knows physics that says, oh no, we, we have plenty of grip, we have plenty of downforce and we're gonna make it, and you've gotta manage those. And it's the same at, it's the same at work.

Ilham Kadri: Amazing. Amazing. You're so special. The only track driver I welcome to the show. There may be, there may be more coming in. Well, thank you so much for this amazing conversation, Erica. you're such a role model for, for all of us as we seek to make our businesses. Sustainable and profitable and and powered by culture. And people. And people. And people, right? And the mindsets you taught us about disruption. About being obsessed by the solutions, and love the solutions, not your technologies. I loved it. I will, I will steal it from you.

Erica Nemser: It’s yours. 

Ilham Kadri: Thank you. Thank you. I steal from the best and, and leadership, or you've inspired us. You inspired me and I'm sure everyone who is listening. Thank you very much, Erica.